Recording a log

[k9protection]

Hi to all, I've been lurking around this forum for some time - this is my first time of not being able to find an answer, so I thought I ought to sign up and see if I can get the advice I need

I have a mobile security control room, used on festivals and events; the unit is installed with a Motorola GM380 which is programmed to the event's frequency range. We need to start logging communications more effectivley, and what I need to achieve is a digitally recorded sound file of radio conversations, hopefully using this GM380's output to record two way traffic to an external logging device, which in this case will be an application running on a PC.

Is there a way of doing this through the accessory socket, or any other way without splicing cables and destabilising the setup? I've considered just buying a cheap scanner, programming tx and rx frequencies in to it, and plugging this in to the recorder, but cheap scanners that support CTCSS codes seem a rarity.

I hope I've explained myself clearly, I have a tendency to mumble on forums when I confuse myself. Your help will be appreciated

[bw18]

Hi and welcome!

The cheapest way to do it would be exactly as you have said, 2 scanners programmed to your TX & RX frequencies. There are lots of scanners that will take CTCSS tones which are not too expensive. You could feed the scanners directly into a PC with some simple recording software and a sound card. This way you would have audio files for each event that you need to record.

The other way is a piece of software which monitors transmissions and records them. I have never needed to do this but I know the software exists. For digital GW3 and TRBO.net seem to be the market leaders and offer some very cool stuff. Again, I haven’t used them yet (I will do soon) but from what George has said on the TRBO thread this has the ability to record all transmissions (analogue & digital), whether he means audio, or just key-ups I'm not sure... You are looking at some substantial £££ for purpose built software!

BW

[emsgeorge]

trbo.net does record analogue - but at £650 its an expensive way of doing it. (it does record selcalls etc).

Being in the event industry myself !, I know what you mean about accurate logs. If you dont have a controller that is 100% there 100% of the time, things can get missed.

I still see some companies using paper based records - which aren't a bad thing, but laptop is easier.

If you use a standalone solution, then scanrec is a good program (and its free  - from memory) and get a scanner. You only need to put the rx freq in it, and monitor that, as all the voice will go through the repeater. (or simplex)

With regard to ctcss - depends on how professional the companies you work with are, as to whether you need it.
Some companies simply use UK Gen at events. The issue here, being that every man and his dog are usually on it (caterers, other contractors etc), and since places like maplin have been selling those 'mitex' branded radios, uk general has become very crowded at events.

If the events people you deal with are worth their salt, then they will be on short term hire, or have a site licence and repeater set up. If thats the case, you generally wont need a scanner with ctcss, as they are the only ones on that frequency.

Unfortionately, its not until you turn up that you realise that 'crappo radios ltd' are the sole supplier (had one 2 weeks ago, where they are on pmr446 !!!!), and your scanner will pick up all and sundry.

We have upgraded to trbo radios over the past year. Its a huge selling point for people that have had radio issues before. Having the comms recorded is also a selling point - not only for safety etc, but also for contractors dealing with the event organiser - when he 'adds something' to your job list, you can accurately justify your inflated invoice - and have evidence that he asked for that extra.

Having said the above, we are still on the trial of trbo.net. so far we've used it with an event with 12 radios, one last week with 50 analogue radios, and its going to be used next month for 70 trbo's, to see how it copes.

So far, its been a good tool for the controller to look at the screen and see who is calling, and to send texts. Its also been useful once so far to replay to see whats been said at a certain time.

Dont forget as well, a lot of events are going over to mototrbo now - G4S have just purchased a huge fleet of DP3400's and DP3600's, so its worth investing in a trbo set on uhf and vhf in the future. ( on a side note, red cross are slowly switching to vhf trbo sets)

[k9protection]

Thanks to both for your input.. I cringe at Trbos after the two occasions I've had to use them, and fortunately, most people I work with cringe at them (although I think now there's finally an adapter block that'll take GP300 gear, that'll start to ease).. Most events we work for tend to have hire gear on UK Hire frequencies from Marlbrough, NRB, Brentwood and so on, CTCSS'd up to the hilt on all frequencies (recently, the main emergency channel was on the same frequency as the caterers with different CTCSS codes!!!

£600 notes for software, when we're a subcontractor outfit seems a bit of a high price to pay, but I will keep it in mind.. I thought one scanner set up right watching the two frequencies for tx and rx would suffice (I'm in the process of saving for a repeater for next year's event season for our vehicle, as i'm sick and tired of companies who think 20 4w UHF radios are sufficient for a 200 acre site, so hopefully simplex will be a thing of the past).

Decisions decisions.

Thanks for the input fellas, it's appreciated

[emsgeorge]

You dont need to monitor the tx freq - as the repeater pumps it out on the rx freq anyway.

All the radio suppliers youve quoted use short term hire, jfmg allocations etc, so you should be ok with a cheap scanner and not use ctcss on it, - unless they put several different users on the same repeater (for the channels you want recording (main security channel etc) then they wouldnt have put anyone else on it, so you will be fine).

Trbo does take some getting used to. And jumping at some events onto analogue, then back to digital also takes its toll on your ears. But there are so many more features on trbo, that its won us over. If only it had the same voice quality as analogue, but with the features of digital, it would be perfect.

Scanrec is still downloadable, I dont have a copy any more, but Im sure someone will.

[k9protection]

You dont need to monitor the tx freq - as the repeater pumps it out on the rx freq anyway.

Duh! I just had to sit here mapping out the sound with my hands to prove I'm a dipstick!! Thanks

[bw18]

Just to add my 2p on TRBO...

I decided to make the switch about 3 months ago and i agree it really does take some getting use to. As George (and many others) point out the voice quality can sometimes be 'iffy' and training staff to use them is not a challenge, but making them adapt to the way TRBO works can be hard work.

Having used and programmed analogue radio for many years I found the transition quite painless and very interesting. The functionality of TRBO is second to none. I love 5 tone and spent a long time learning how to programme it. However, TRBO has pretty much covered every base from the word go. PTT I.D, stun/unstun, remote monitor, private calls, group calls and for many the TDMA is spot on.

Each firmware release does seem to make improvements and increase the functions available, I believe as time goes on the audio quality will improve. It's also worth noting the need for Impress accessories to be used with the TRBO kit. Anything other than that can cause substantially worse audio quality (as I discovered to my expense).

If you're thinking about making the switch get some TRBO kit on hire for a few weeks and have a good play, put it into your scenarios and see how it copes. Analogue will be around for a long time yet... At least until the digital 'bugs' are totally ironed out.

Slightly off topic oops! 

BW

[k9protection]

So.. i've gone from hopefully bodging together a scanner to replacing the set in the van with a TRBO and spending a small fortune 

Cheers guys, how to spend my money lol.

[bw18]

On a serious note... If you are thinking about making the change and plan to sell your analogue kit think about selling sooner rather than later. You only need to look on a well known online bay of goodies to see how 'cheap' analogue kit now is. I sold the best part of 120 GP320/40/60/80's & GM380's and nearly fell over when I got told how much they were worth!

If I said it did'nt go much further than covering 15% of the new TRBO system cost I would'nt be telling porkies!!!

BW

[k9protection]

I only have a requirement for 2 units - one base station in our CCTV vehicle, and one in my K9 van.. Is TRBO fully backwards compatible with analog UHF? How about programming? I carry a crappy old laptop around to put us on to the frequencies of the event, anyone know the cost of the codeplugging software?

Also, is there a Hydra type device to allow multiple heads on a TRBO radio like you can with the GP380?

PS.. Sorry to the moderation team, this is starting to digress on to a whole new topic.

[bw18]

Yes it is backwards compatible... to an extent! 5 Tone is not built into TRBO, I believe however there is an option board available if you require it.

You can purchase the CPS (programming software) right here on the forum as well as the programming cable (which is now USB, and much easier than RS232 etc). I think you’re probably looking at around £200 including VAT. That is a guess though as I didn’t purchase my programming kit from the forum.

If you are looking for 2 TRBO mobile radios (DM3600's) I reckon you could probably get yourself set-up for around £1200... With some shopping around and sweet talking.

BW